Economics poll (right or left wing)

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How do you believe resources should be distributed in society?

33% 33% 
[ 2 ]
50% 50% 
[ 3 ]
17% 17% 
[ 1 ]
 
Total Votes : 6

Economics poll (right or left wing)

Post by ForeverPure on Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:17 pm

Wanted to bring up a topic not really discussed much previously on this community.

To clarify:

Communism: Money should not exist, resources should be devoted to those who need it, not to those who can afford it.

Socialism: Keep currency, but nationalize health care, housing and education. Resources should be devoted to those who deserve it, not to those who can afford it.

Capitalism: Focus on privatization, with minimal government interference. Resources should be devoted to those who can afford it.

I personally voted for communism, as I believe money is a tool to keep the poor, poor and the rich, rich. Society should be united by the workers, who represent the blood of the system. No man or woman deserves to be without a home, to be without food or health care - and all resources should belong to the community.
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Re: Economics poll (right or left wing)

Post by Admin on Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:04 pm

That's a tricky one for me. I'm not completely against capitalism on principle, only because it allows the potential for a better standard of living and upward economic mobility. It's not perfect, but it wouldn't be so bad if workers were paid a fair wage, and economic and environmental sustainability were valued over short-term economic growth and the bottom line. I'm against the deregulation that has happened over the past few decades, for giving so much power to corporations, which has been destructive in many ways.

I don't trust the government running things very much, but I trust corporations running things even less, and don't think a society without currency is very feasible on a large scale. That may only be possible with small-scale societies.
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Re: Economics poll (right or left wing)

Post by ForeverPure on Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:51 pm

@Admin wrote:That's a tricky one for me. I'm not completely against capitalism on principle, only because it allows the potential for a better standard of living and upward economic mobility. It's not perfect, but it wouldn't be so bad if workers were paid a fair wage, and economic and environmental sustainability were valued over short-term economic growth and the bottom line. I'm against the deregulation that has happened over the past few decades, for giving so much power to corporations, which has been destructive in many ways.

I don't trust the government running things very much, but I trust corporations running things even less, and don't think a society without currency is very feasible on a large scale. That may only be possible with small-scale societies.

The line between corporation and government has nearly faded in most capitalist nations across the world. Only countries like Cuba have retained their independence thus far. I live in Canada and we are likely heading towards a massive reform towards state socialism - a move that I view in a positive light (I personally support the New Democratic Party). We really need to break ties with the imperialist United States, which relies most of its economy on foreign and domestic slave labour.

Regardless, I completely agree with you that communism is designed for small-scale societies. I personally believe that country should be broken into dozens of self-sustainable communes, corporate assets should be forcefully seized by the workers - who produced them and the loan sharks that rule our country should be redistributed among all the countries where their companies enslaved its people.

The very fact that my country still recognizes a monarch goes to show why millions of Canadians go without adequate housing, health care and education every single year. It saddens me to see the youth becoming distracted by consumer trends instead of preparing for their future - which in this world will either be working endless hours under fluorescent lights or being forced to conduct dangerous manual labour in order to afford to put food on the table. I remember one of my family members attempting to convince me that socialism would not work because economies cannot afford to provide for the elderly - essentially saying that people in a certain economic class are doomed to die from poverty because the rich need less tax to afford more luxury goods.

The only reason why I am still alive today is because I so happened to be born in a wealthy family (albeit not considered "rich" by "rich people's" standards - we are rich compared to the trash man, the teacher or the police officer that keeps society together). It's actually rather disturbingly amusing when you hear someone criticize you for using air conditioning when they own two properties and have recently purchased three flat screens (literally). Of course, corporations and governments are not the only entities to blame for societal decay, people must be willing to reject the poisons that ruin their society.
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Re: Economics poll (right or left wing)

Post by Admin on Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:18 pm

@ForeverPure wrote:
@Admin wrote:That's a tricky one for me. I'm not completely against capitalism on principle, only because it allows the potential for a better standard of living and upward economic mobility. It's not perfect, but it wouldn't be so bad if workers were paid a fair wage, and economic and environmental sustainability were valued over short-term economic growth and the bottom line. I'm against the deregulation that has happened over the past few decades, for giving so much power to corporations, which has been destructive in many ways.

I don't trust the government running things very much, but I trust corporations running things even less, and don't think a society without currency is very feasible on a large scale. That may only be possible with small-scale societies.

The line between corporation and government has nearly faded in most capitalist nations across the world. Only countries like Cuba have retained their independence thus far. I live in Canada and we are likely heading towards a massive reform towards state socialism - a move that I view in a positive light (I personally support the New Democratic Party). We really need to break ties with the imperialist United States, which relies most of its economy on foreign and domestic slave labour.
I thought the line between corporation and government was still clear in most other capitalist nations, but it's just that the US is the most notorious for blurring the line between government and corporation, seeing how much sway corporations have had in government policies.

I'm against the outsourcing that's been happening. There are fewer entry-level jobs available, especially for those with less education, and people overseas are being exploited, doing the same work for a small fraction of the price, and under fewer regulations. The only people who win are the CEOs of the corporations.

Regardless, I completely agree with you that communism is designed for small-scale societies. I personally believe that country should be broken into dozens of self-sustainable communes, corporate assets should be forcefully seized by the workers - who produced them and the loan sharks that rule our country should be redistributed among all the countries where their companies enslaved its people.

Is there any way there could be a smooth transition between large-scale societies to small-scale societies, or do you think the only with it could happen would require collapse of society first?

There are a few apolocalpytic scenarios I've seen that had the sudden collapse of society, with a very difficult period of time where everyone was struggling to survive due to the harsh conditions, before being able to band together into large enough numbers to create a new society, although one on a much smaller scale, and it would have to be one without modern currency since the cataclysm that happened made it worthless.


The very fact that my country still recognizes a monarch goes to show why millions of Canadians go without adequate housing, health care and education every single year.

Why do so many of the former British colonies still recognize the monarch? Wouldn't it be in their best interest economically to become republics?

It saddens me to see the youth becoming distracted by consumer trends instead of preparing for their future - which in this world will either be working endless hours under fluorescent lights or being forced to conduct dangerous manual labour in order to afford to put food on the table.

That is a concern everywhere. I've heard of people in their 20's amassing large amounts of credit card debt that would take decades to pay off, and for what?. I can't imagine doing that. I've never been tempted to use a credit card for that reason. I already have a lot of student loan debt. Why would I want to pile credit card debt on top of that?


I remember one of my family members attempting to convince me that socialism would not work because economies cannot afford to provide for the elderly - essentially saying that people in a certain economic class are doomed to die from poverty because the rich need less tax to afford more luxury goods.
I've heard that argument too. Was your family aware that they were implying that certain people deserve to die in poverty?


The only reason why I am still alive today is because I so happened to be born in a wealthy family (albeit not considered "rich" by "rich people's" standards - we are rich compared to the trash man, the teacher or the police officer that keeps society together). It's actually rather disturbingly amusing when you hear someone criticize you for using air conditioning when they own two properties and have recently purchased three flat screens (literally). Of course, corporations and governments are not the only entities to blame for societal decay, people must be willing to reject the poisons that ruin their society.
I've heard of people like that too, and it's ridiculous. The poor get shamed especially bad for it, when they dare to spend just a little bit of their money on themselves, they ruthlessly get shamed for being "selfish" or "irresponsible", and are saying that poor people should never have nice things!
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Re: Economics poll (right or left wing)

Post by ForeverPure on Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:10 pm

@Admin wrote:
@ForeverPure wrote:
@Admin wrote:That's a tricky one for me. I'm not completely against capitalism on principle, only because it allows the potential for a better standard of living and upward economic mobility. It's not perfect, but it wouldn't be so bad if workers were paid a fair wage, and economic and environmental sustainability were valued over short-term economic growth and the bottom line. I'm against the deregulation that has happened over the past few decades, for giving so much power to corporations, which has been destructive in many ways.

I don't trust the government running things very much, but I trust corporations running things even less, and don't think a society without currency is very feasible on a large scale. That may only be possible with small-scale societies.

The line between corporation and government has nearly faded in most capitalist nations across the world. Only countries like Cuba have retained their independence thus far. I live in Canada and we are likely heading towards a massive reform towards state socialism - a move that I view in a positive light (I personally support the New Democratic Party). We really need to break ties with the imperialist United States, which relies most of its economy on foreign and domestic slave labour.
I thought the line between corporation and government was still clear in most other capitalist nations, but it's just that the US is the most notorious for blurring the line between government and corporation, seeing how much sway corporations have had in government policies.

I'm against the outsourcing that's been happening. There are fewer entry-level jobs available, especially for those with less education, and people overseas are being exploited, doing the same work for a small fraction of the price, and under fewer regulations. The only people who win are the CEOs of the corporations.

Regardless, I completely agree with you that communism is designed for small-scale societies. I personally believe that country should be broken into dozens of self-sustainable communes, corporate assets should be forcefully seized by the workers - who produced them and the loan sharks that rule our country should be redistributed among all the countries where their companies enslaved its people.

Is there any way there could be a smooth transition between large-scale societies to small-scale societies, or do you think the only with it could happen would require collapse of society first?

There are a few apolocalpytic scenarios I've seen that had the sudden collapse of society, with a very difficult period of time where everyone was struggling to survive due to the harsh conditions, before being able to band together into large enough numbers to create a new society, although one on a much smaller scale, and it would have to be one without modern currency since the cataclysm that happened made it worthless.


The very fact that my country still recognizes a monarch goes to show why millions of Canadians go without adequate housing, health care and education every single year.

Why do so many of the former British colonies still recognize the monarch? Wouldn't it be in their best interest economically to become republics?

It saddens me to see the youth becoming distracted by consumer trends instead of preparing for their future - which in this world will either be working endless hours under fluorescent lights or being forced to conduct dangerous manual labour in order to afford to put food on the table.

That is a concern everywhere. I've heard of people in their 20's amassing large amounts of credit card debt that would take decades to pay off, and for what?. I can't imagine doing that. I've never been tempted to use a credit card for that reason. I already have a lot of student loan debt. Why would I want to pile credit card debt on top of that?


I remember one of my family members attempting to convince me that socialism would not work because economies cannot afford to provide for the elderly - essentially saying that people in a certain economic class are doomed to die from poverty because the rich need less tax to afford more luxury goods.
I've heard that argument too. Was your family aware that they were implying that certain people deserve to die in poverty?

I doubt the member in question was thinking about that in specific, but that's the whole issue with the belief in economics. Bureaucrats spend way too much time focusing on numbers, presenting them in speeches and advertisements as "proof" that self-evident problems for some reason do not exist. They ignore the plights of the common man. The media portrays the common man as a drug addict, a freeloader, an uneducated wild ape who roams the streets at night looking for prey, when in reality - that "drug addict", "freeloader" whatever savvy word they want to use - is just looking for a job - a purpose of some kind.

Not to say there are not freeloaders out there, but you are more likely to find gluttons wearing a suit and tie then you are to find one sitting on the corner of the street with a sign that reads: "Will work for food"
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Re: Economics poll (right or left wing)

Post by Admin on Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:36 am

@ForeverPure wrote:I doubt the member in question was thinking about that in specific, but that's the whole issue with the belief in economics. Bureaucrats spend way too much time focusing on numbers, presenting them in speeches and advertisements as "proof" that self-evident problems for some reason do not exist. They ignore the plights of the common man. The media portrays the common man as a drug addict, a freeloader, an uneducated wild ape who roams the streets at night looking for prey, when in reality - that "drug addict", "freeloader" whatever savvy word they want to use - is just looking for a job - a purpose of some kind.

Not to say there are not freeloaders out there, but you are more likely to find gluttons wearing a suit and tie then you are to find one sitting on the corner of the street with a sign that reads: "Will work for food"
Not to mention that statistics get misused to further agendas all the time.

That reminds me of those who say that unemployed people are lazy freeloaders, regardless of the circumstances behind their unemployment, even saying those things during the height of the recession. It was actually during the height of the recession that I've heard that rhetoric the most.

I also recall politicians saying that college students are selfish for wanting jobs, when it's not so much wanting jobs, but needing them!
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Re: Economics poll (right or left wing)

Post by Panache on Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:08 am

I’ve been facing some serious paradigm-shifting in regards to my views on economics and money. If anyone would like to go into more detail about their views on these issues, now would be the ideal time for me, to get some different perspectives. I doubt I’ll be able to contribute much to the conversation at the moment; I'd appreciate other people’s thoughts on economic systems and money in general, though. It doesn’t have to be a thesis or anything, just thoughts to help me think about it myself.
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Re: Economics poll (right or left wing)

Post by Admin on Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:14 pm

@Panache wrote:I’ve been facing some serious paradigm-shifting in regards to my views on economics and money. If anyone would like to go into more detail about their views on these issues, now would be the ideal time for me, to get some different perspectives. I doubt I’ll be able to contribute much to the conversation at the moment; I'd appreciate other people’s thoughts on economic systems and money in general, though. It doesn’t have to be a thesis or anything, just thoughts to help me think about it myself.

What kind of paradigm-shifting did you experience? I had experienced some major shifts over the years too, as I developed a more nuanced understanding of different forms of economy. What do you think of the claim of money being the root of all evil? I find it an interesting question, but I wonder if it may be a necessary evil if money is required for a large scale society to exist?

It seems like the only way for an egalitarian society would be possible would be for our large-scale societies to be broken down into small-scale societies, but is it feasible for that to happen without a cataclysmic scenario or complete collapse of the economy? Of course, even if that happened, another hierarchy could still happen due to a power vacuum. I've seen a few shows about cataclysms in which society collapsed, but some of them were more optimistic, showing that survivors were able to partially rebuild it, though not nearly to the level of technology that society had before the cataclysm, and a lot of technology and history were still lost forever.
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Re: Economics poll (right or left wing)

Post by Aztec12 on Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:59 pm

No more voting? Well I think planned mix economy is the best a mixture of capitalism and socialism. So we can be entrepreneurs and have universal health care at the same time. I also think the government is for the people so economy should be for the people too.

However out of the three I say socialism. 
Since my government is supposed to be for the people anyways


Last edited by Aztec12 on Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : forgot to say which one I would picked)
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Re: Economics poll (right or left wing)

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