In your opinion, should antisexuality be considered an identity or should it be a private matter?

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In your opinion, should antisexuality be considered an identity or should it be a private matter?

Post by SCH0206 on Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:05 pm

I thought about how some members of LGBTQA use their sexual orientation(s) or chosen gender as a way to identify themselves, which I find kind of silly because while it's not criminal, it doesn't make sense to describe oneself based on what one does in private, and I don't think I need to tell the world about my antisexuality since it doesn't describe how I am as a person. But, what do you think? Do you desire something like Antisexual Pride Month or something similar? Or, do you think it's something to keep to yourself and your closest, trusted companions?


Last edited by SCH0206 on Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: In your opinion, should antisexuality be considered an identity or should it be a private matter?

Post by Biscotti on Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:52 pm

Well, first off I refer to it as 'antisexualism', as it's a belief and not a state of being.

That said, I also do think antisexualism describes how I am as a person (Not in personality, but my views and goals, for me it makes up a good amount of goals).

Pride months are lobotomized. Remove them. "Antisexual AWARENESS month" though would be lovely.

And given that I am fighting for antisexual awareness (Or sex-neutrality at the very least), "Or, do you think it's something to keep to yourself and your closest, trusted companions?"
I intend to tell people, but if I feel threatened (If, for example, introducing myself as an antisexual will cause pushback in who I am talking to and encourage them to sexually coerce people to prove a point), I will not (Thus it still requires trust).
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Re: In your opinion, should antisexuality be considered an identity or should it be a private matter?

Post by radarerror31 on Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:18 pm

I don't go for identity politics stuff like a Pride Month.  I don't have any problem telling people what I think, and that I believe that antisexualism will become undeniable truth for a lot of people.  At the very least, there is going to be a backlash against the past century of hyper-sexualization of everything, when many people rightly find that it is a dead-end.

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Re: In your opinion, should antisexuality be considered an identity or should it be a private matter?

Post by SlagToccata on Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:01 pm

@radarerror31 wrote:I don't go for identity politics stuff like a Pride Month.  I don't have any problem telling people what I think, and that I believe that antisexualism will become undeniable truth for a lot of people.  At the very least, there is going to be a backlash against the past century of hyper-sexualization of everything, when many people rightly find that it is a dead-end.
I was going to type a response, but this is just about exactly what it was going to be.
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Re: In your opinion, should antisexuality be considered an identity or should it be a private matter?

Post by AzureSky on Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:07 pm

I find lobbying antisexuality as an identity just as silly as how LGBTQA lobbies itself as an identity. I agree that awareness of antisexuality and pushing for at least sex-neutrality isigood, and for me it certainly describes me, but I prefer it to be one of my many traits in life, and not something I obsess over. I feel that obsessimg over sex in a negative manner, or obsessing about antisexuality, can still not be healthy in certain contexts, and the best way to combat sexual stances is to treat sex not as something excessively evil or good, thereby giving it attention as something flashy or dramatic, but to characterize it as something vulgar, boring, and base, thereby removing any appeal. I don't know, just my thoughts. Perhaps I am a bit offbase. I do not know.
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Re: In your opinion, should antisexuality be considered an identity or should it be a private matter?

Post by SCH0206 on Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:12 pm

@AzureSky wrote:I find lobbying antisexuality as an identity just as silly as how LGBTQA lobbies itself as an identity. I agree that awareness of antisexuality and pushing for at least sex-neutrality isigood, and for me it certainly describes me, but I prefer it to be one of my many traits in life, and not something I obsess over. I feel that obsessimg over sex in a negative manner, or obsessing about antisexuality, can still not be healthy in certain contexts, and the best way to combat sexual stances is to treat sex not as something excessively evil or good, thereby giving it attention as something flashy or dramatic, but to characterize it as something vulgar, boring, and base, thereby removing any appeal. I don't know, just my thoughts. Perhaps I am a bit offbase. I do not know.

I think you're quite on-target. It may take a few centuries or thousands of years before sex is seen as a neutral thing.

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Re: In your opinion, should antisexuality be considered an identity or should it be a private matter?

Post by SlagToccata on Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:57 pm

@AzureSky wrote:I feel that obsessimg over sex in a negative manner, or obsessing about antisexuality, can still not be healthy in certain contexts, and the best way to combat sexual stances is to treat sex not as something excessively evil or good, thereby giving it attention as something flashy or dramatic, but to characterize it as something vulgar, boring, and base, thereby removing any appeal.
Definitely! There will always be something to hate. Eventually, focusing on how much you hate it will just be unpleasant. When looking through articles and musings related to politics/religion/social issues, even when I agreed with what was said, I would wonder "don't these guys get bored of this?"

It's for the same reason that I've never voluntarily watched the news.
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Re: In your opinion, should antisexuality be considered an identity or should it be a private matter?

Post by x Nacht Klaue x on Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:23 pm

Just let every day be a day against the sex obsessed world.
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Re: In your opinion, should antisexuality be considered an identity or should it be a private matter?

Post by Biscotti on Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:31 pm

@SlagToccata

This is still me, honestly. I'm against it for myself and don't like that others do it based on what it seems to do to them, but am not convinced fully that it's flat-out "wrong" in every case or that it should be punished. My "live and let live" side still wins out when it comes to this topic most of the time.

I want to talk about a contradiction in the statements you've made, how it's not a contradiction but a fine line and how I also struggle with the same thing.

These past couple weeks I've struggled with repeatedly getting sucked into "pissing matches" against sexuals. And then dumping thoughts on this forum in poorly-written venting posts that I later regret. Why do I do this?
I know there's a reason.
Your post here is interesting. I think sex is inherently bad in every case. Immoral? That's more complicated. That it should be punished? That's not something we really talk about. But your last sentence is what I want to talk about right now. Because I think people these days are TOO "live and let live" 
I used to support "libertarianism". Which I defined as a government not getting involved in peoples sex lives. However it seems that more and more, people who align with "live and let live" philosophy are not talking about a government being neutral, but about society being neutral. (I recently argued with a prosexual who argued that they're fighting for a 'society that doesn't shame people for having sex'. Can you spot how many things are wrong with that sentence? And how the person arguing has no idea what a "society" is?). Furthermore they seem to tend to dis-arm anyone who doesn't agree with them. (I recently argued with a prosexual who was arguing that virginity is only a concept that people use to shame people who have sex. And there are scads of discussions about how there's no good reason to abtain from sex cuz sex feels gud xD. Can you spot how THIS isn't libertarian?).

Before you found this forum, how many one-sided prosexual things did you have to wade through? It's everywhere from forums to newsplaces. LIke how recently the FOSTA/SESTA thing designed to help sex-trafficking survivors got NOTHING but bad press because "think of the prostitutes! :'(". Very balanced news sources we have today!

I guess this is why you stay away from the news.

But where's the "contradiction"? The "contradiction" is that when you first came to this forum you said you wanted to be politically active and spread antisexualism. Yet find being poltical tiring.

I know why I kept getting into pissing matches. There is the temptation to bash their fragile worldview based on illogicities, self-objectification and such. But also because I want to make it clear to lurkers that this is not a one-sided debate. And some perverse sex brave-new-world groupthink is not an objective or beneficial way of looking at things at all. I'm not sure if we are living in a world where our side is banned necessarily, but it's practically equivalent when our side is not visible. And this yearning for visibility is why I keep doing it, even though it makes me feel like crap.
 
And I think that's the same dichotomy you're referencing. Where you wish to change things, but find doing so makes you feel like crap. I don't think it's a contradiction. I think we're somehow just caging ourselves in some way of doing things that while may possibly be beneficial to our side isn't the MOST beneficial to our side. I don't know! IDK!
But I've been telling myself to "stay constructive". As I believe a "constructive" attitude is what I've been missing as of late.

But I must retain that it is entirely important to stop the sex-positive culture. For two reasons.
One is because their side has so many lies it creates to justify itself. This may not seem important but I believe it is. (And I wish to do a study on how the lies and weird values they create impact society for the worse sometime).
And two, is that their putrid way of devaluing sex-negativity is the cause for sexual coercion. And I think is a reason why our community is so small, as would-be antisexuals are basically railroaded into their cult before they can stand on their own two feet. It's absolutely disgusting. In fact that is a bit driving force for why I wish to break them up. Thing is. Is this a thing that happens? Is it safe to assume that anyone who may be sex-negativity will stand up for themselves because why wouldn't they? Members of this community have faced some sort of pressure at some point. Yet I believe we all said no eventually. So that would imply that this isn't a problem right?
Except I believe it does. I talked to someone once, a stranger on the internet. Whom said something like "antisexualism was something she may have been interested in had she learned about it when she was younger.". Even when I stressed that you don't need to be a virgin to be antisexual, I don't believe she ever joined.
When I pitched that "x is not worth your sexual pleasure". I mean it. A sexually "free" or "libertarian" society is ABSOLUTELY NOT WORTH IT. if it causes ONE SINGLE PERSON to be pressured into sex.
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Re: In your opinion, should antisexuality be considered an identity or should it be a private matter?

Post by x Nacht Klaue x on Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:03 pm

To me it's both private and my identity (the person I am) at the same time.

Like, I don't go around and tell people. I already know that it's difficult to be an "alien" amongst people. I've experienced that since childhood. So i'm tired of that. If people want to stand out for what they are and believe in and are being open about it to everyone, they should also be prepared mentally to get called names, making fun of, critisized, attacked, etc.
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Re: In your opinion, should antisexuality be considered an identity or should it be a private matter?

Post by SCH0206 on Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:51 pm

@Biscotti

The sexuals that you speak of don't sound like they want a "live and let live" society. They sound like they want a society that panders to them while they feel free to shame or pressure others for not agreeing with them. That's not live and let live; that's being hypocritical. I can't stand it when some people adhere to double standards. Freedom doesn't just mean the right to do something; it also means the right to not to do something, too.

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Re: In your opinion, should antisexuality be considered an identity or should it be a private matter?

Post by SlagToccata on Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:13 pm

@Biscotti

Very good points. I appreciate being challenged on what I say and am glad I remembered to respond.

As far as "live and let live" goes for me, it's nothing more than a general approach. Views on politics are a separate matter as they deal with interpretation of information, so I won't go into that here. I also don't wish to force society to be more neutral, as that would be the opposite of "letting it be".

@Biscotti wrote:But where's the "contradiction"? The "contradiction" is that when you first came to this forum you said you wanted to be politically active and spread antisexualism. Yet find being poltical tiring.

Indeed I did. However, wanting to in some capacity and making it a priority in my life at this time are different things, I think. I respect your efforts presenting your views assertively to others one-on-one, but at present, that is not an activity that holds much appeal for me, certainly not enough to make up for the frustration and exhaustion afterward.

If there's a project of some sort where we can all get together and spread awareness of this perspective, count me in. Pulling people aside (so to speak) and explaining to them one-by-one is something that I consider admirable, but not something I wish to do at this time.

Finally, to elaborate on my most convtorversial point, I have seen people who are level-headed and sexually active who claim to enjoy the sexual side of their life. I don't believe they need it, and believe it could cause problems later in their lives, but right now they're regularly choosing to engage in it while also maintaining functioning lives. This is what I meant by it "not always being flat-out wrong".
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Re: In your opinion, should antisexuality be considered an identity or should it be a private matter?

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:27 pm

The word identity and what little meaning remains of it today makes little sense to me in general, as one's "identity" can change at any time and isn't as solid as people would like to believe. If it truly was something that never changed, that would be a different matter. But most "identities" I see floating around are anything but. I guess I could see antisexualism as an "identity", or even a political stance or movement perhaps, but I wouldn't understand what purpose that label would serve. Identities might be useful for finding others that think the same, but organizing yourself as anything more than a group of like-minded people seems pointless and aggressive to me. And once an identity group is big enough to garner attention, the whole thing seems to become more about status and pretense than actual belonging

@AzureSky wrote:I find lobbying antisexuality as an identity just as silly as how LGBTQA lobbies itself as an identity. I agree that awareness of antisexuality and pushing for at least sex-neutrality isigood, and for me it certainly describes me, but I prefer it to be one of my many traits in life, and not something I obsess over. I feel that obsessimg over sex in a negative manner, or obsessing about antisexuality, can still not be healthy in certain contexts, and the best way to combat sexual stances is to treat sex not as something excessively evil or good, thereby giving it attention as something flashy or dramatic, but to characterize it as something vulgar, boring, and base, thereby removing any appeal. I don't know, just my thoughts. Perhaps I am a bit offbase. I do not know.

Yes, giving sexuality more power than it has by portraying it as more than a neutral evil can only lead to negative consequences. It will be seen as alluring to rebelliously inclined people, for one, just for the sole reason that it is "forbidden". People should certainly know the true nature of sex and its harm, and be informed of it, but making it into a boogeyman seems not just pointless but potentially damaging to the actual cause.

@Biscotti wrote:@SlagToccata

I want to talk about a contradiction in the statements you've made, how it's not a contradiction but a fine line and how I also struggle with the same thing.

...

If I may interject my own opinion here. I do appreciate your willingness to get involved in society's change, but I don't quite agree with the means you wish to achieve this. I certainly agree that sex is inherently bad and I believe that there is nothing wrong with informing people as much as possible (depending on how one goes about doing that), and I agree with some of your points about society being too "live and let live" when it comes to tolerating evil, but there isn't much that can be done about that, realistically. Punishment never fixes problems, it just creates more. And what else should one do to one's opponents? Live and let live is the only peaceful way ultimately. How far would you be willing to go to force others to believe or understand? Ignoring the fact that you can't ever force understanding anyway. I think force is the wrong way. This is simply the way I see it:

I don't believe that trying to convince people of something will ever convince them. It will always come across as obnoxious to others. It's similar to someone trying to be funny, trying it a little bit too hard that is. It smells of desperation to people, and they interpret it as weak. When you try to convince someone of something, what position do you partake in? What do you want, what will you get once the bargain you've entered is over, what will the other get? Every conversation is like a deal. You want something, the other person wants something. Whether that be information, entertainment, company, material goods, etc. But in this case, you are technically in the position of a beggar, because you want something from the other person (you want them to change their mind), without offering anything in return. Sure, you tell them their life will be better once they listen to you, but they are not yet convinced of your stance at all, so this means nothing to them. It's like promising to give them money at some point in the future for their services...maybe. This will be seen as pathetic and unfair. That's simply the way our brains work, even if you have the best intentions. And that's why telling someone something they are not already convinced of themselves will always backfire. But then, how do you convince people at all? You can't, they have to learn all life lessons for themselves, but there is another way.

It's much better to simply live your life as morally and wisely as you can manage, and inspire others passively that way. Once they see how well you are doing, despite living so frugally (with less needs to be fulfilled) compared to them, some might ask themselves why that is, and might reconsider their own lives. Then they will be in a begging position, not you. In such a position, maybe they would even listen to you in conversation. But if their bargaining position is solid and their life seemingly stable, they have zero reason to listen to anything you say. Passive influence is the only influence you can have. But this is a good thing. This safety mechanism of our free will allows us to have opinions and stances at all. The same thing that keeps them stubborn in their beliefs is what keeps us stubborn in ours. For better or for worse.

* And a note about that "living life wisely and inspiring others" bit: This might have worked in different times, but since nowadays no one cares about the lives of others anymore, tell your life story through the proxy of, for example, a (fictional) book, in metaphors. One in which the characters learn the life lessons you wish to impart. But never come across as preachy, stay neutral in tone, but make the point obvious nonetheless. You might make some people passively learn life lessons that way without having to make mistakes themselves. It's sneaky, and it's how many people propagate their ideas. Most propaganda is in fiction after all, propagandists don't have one-on-one discussions with people to convince them to buy their brand of pizza, because they know all these things. That is not how you convince people of anything. Advertisements are short fiction. Don't ask me about the morals of this, the answer could fill a book, and I've said enough already.

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